In an exclusive interview, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar talked about a host of issues, including the row over the Army Chief’s appointment, surgical strike and demonetisation. Asked whether the government is mulling a “suitable role” for Lt Gen Praveen Bakshi, he said the government would take all aspects into consideration. He said he would make a presentation to the Prime Minister on the Chief of Defence Staff in January 2017. Parrikar also said that India’s recent surgical strike would have long term impact. Excerpts:
ON CONTROVERSY OVER ARMY CHIEF’S APPOINTMENT
I think first of all we should realise that there is a procedure set in for selecting the Chief of Army. It has to be selected out of the top commanders who are elgible as per the norms prescribed. It is not necessarily seniority, it is a selection out of 5-6 top commanders who are eligible and all of them are equally good. The selection ultimately is… There are very fine points wherein you consider the ground situation, suitability and make the selections. Normally, if there are no special conditions, probably seniority principle does kick in. Seniority is given importance, but I think the selection is as per procedure and as per the norms. There are no violations of any procedural aspect of it.
ON HIS MEETING WITH LT GEN PRAVEEN BAKSHI
Actually, in fact, when this decision was made, before it was made public, I was trying to get in touch, but could not get at the time. So when he called on me, I explained to him the rationale behind taking the decision and that there was no heart burning. I made it very clear that it was not that there was something lacking about him… Our discussion was quite free and frank, so there should not be any heart burns. He indicated to me that he will be taking some rest… Leave, which probably was long overdue for him, he has taken it right now… I don’t see any such eventuality or can’t predict it on his behalf… But from whatever I have discussed, I don’t see any eventuality.
WILL THE GOVERNMENT CONSIDER ACCOMMODATING SUPERSEDED LT GEN PRAVEEN BAKSHI BY APPOINTING HIM GOVERNOR OR AMBASSADOR?
We are taking all these aspects into consideration. Once he resumes, I will have a proper discussion with him and definitely take his views into consideration before any decision is made.
ON CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF
I think in the month of January, we should be able to make a detailed presentation to the Prime Minister. We will also brief the NSA on the issue, because this will have a ramification on the overall security of the country and taking their advice into consideration, we will come to a conclusion… But I feel that a lot of churning has already taken place. We may take some more views… Once we make the presentation to the Prime Minister, the call rests with him….
I can only say that a presentation would be made probably in the month of January… There are a lot of consultations that need to be taken from his side too. He needs to take into consideration various aspects of different scenarios in India. Each army cannot be compared with another army in totality. The current situation where the senior-most is a chairman of the committee of chiefs of staff is a very meek arrangement. A CDS has to be a different identity. But what his responsibilty will be other than single point advice to the Defence Minister and to the Prime Minister or what structure he will control and what will be the role of Chief of Army, Chief of Air Force, Chief of Navy will be taken depending on India’s scenario. I think a decision would be made by 2017. I don’t think there would be too much delay.
ON SURGICAL STRIKE
Surgical strike was never a one stroke solution for terror attack. Surgical strike basically introduced the principle of uncertainty and, therefore, surgical strike did have its impact. You cannot calculate the impact becuase you will have to create a scenario where there was no surgical strikes. How do you know minus the surgical strikes, the number of incidents would have been more or less? I definitely think that there would have been more.
I won’t get into that argument, as far as surgical strike is concerned, the principle of uncertainty that india does not retaliate has been taken away. So that in itself is a deterrent to the enemy and obviously that will have its own impact and we will have to observe the impact over a period of time rather than doing it in a very short time frame.
ON DOING MORE SURGICAL STRIKES, OR ELIMINATING TERRORISTS
It can’t be discussed in public, it has to be done by the security apparatus and for security of the country, whatever is required has to be done. As of now, there is comparatively peace on the border. We hope our adverseries and Pakistan realise that cross-border firing does not benefit them too. In fact, there are more at the recieving end than India. It also damages us, but economically, it also puts a lot of pressure on them.
WAS PM MODI PRESENT IN THE DGMO DURING THE SURGICAL STRIKE?
These operations were monitored by the command and they had a live feed. Northern Command was definitely in the loop. We had prepared a briefing earlier. That briefing was witnessed by all who were concerned. Obviously, the Prime Ministeer has to be briefed on the current scenario. I will not confirm where it was, but he was briefed on the scenario and shown all the action plans. But the freedom of operations was given to the core command.
ON DEMONETISATION
I think cash, especially big denomination notes, are one of the major sources for many of the crimes, terrorist activities, drug peddling, drug trafficking and many other criminal activities because they are easy to carry if they are big in denominations. A smaller denomination note is more difficult to carry. Therefore, there is definitely a disruption in terror funding. That’s the reason why you saw one or two cases of attempt of even bank looting in J&K… This is because of lack of funding, because earlier notes which were circulated became null and void overnight, so obviously there was a supply restraint, supply control in the management and therefore terror funding reduced and became null and void for quite sometime. Of course, it is not that it will continue 100% because the new Rs 2,000 notes and new Rs 500 notes would come back into circulation. But the intensity has definitely reduced. Secondly, fake currency which is mostly used for funding terror activities also got curtailed to nearly zero. So these are the two things which I think have had an impact on terror funding.
ON 50 DAYS POST DEMONETISATION
What is discussed behind closed doors can’t be revealed outside. PM Modi is sensitive to the cause of the common man. Modi is sensitive to the cause of the poor man. If you ask me, I expect a big push on housing for all which he has time and again said, but the speed of response hasn’t been met to the satisfaction because of budget constraint and capital requirement. But with this amount available, additional taxation which will be available, these are the areas where there will be a push.
ON DEMONETISATION UNITING OPPOSITION AND GIVING THEM A PLATFORM
First of all, the common platform issue has been debunked by itself. It was very clear 2-3 days back that all opposition parties do not support the concept of what is being proposed by the Congress. Right from Day 1, Mamata Banerjee and some of them have been opposing demonetisation as they think it is a wrong move. The reasons are best known to them. I would say this, as far as demonetisation is concerned 80% population of the country… in some areas more than 80%… in some areas more than 90%… in some areas maybe 75%, have welcomed the move as a massive strike against black money and corruption. As also terror funding, crime funding … All those aspects… So people have welcomed it. Just imagine, if people had not really accepted demonetisation, there would have been riots. But I believe that almost 70% impact of demonetisation in terms of difficulties has already been neutralised and the balance 30% should be over in the next one or two weeks. Now, as far as opposition is concerned, if they supported demonetisation, they make Modi more popular… Probably, they thought that there is some section which may not be happy with demonetisation. They are trying to corner that share of anti-feeling. But unluckily for them that negative feeling or opposition to demonetisation by people… the percentage share is very small…
ON IMPLEMENTATION OF DEMONETISATION
While I would concede that a couple of them could have been properly thought of and avoided, there is nothing wrong in moving in correcting what you feel is correct… Because these are things which evolve. This is also like an oppression wherein for example in a war… say in the 1971 war …if you take the heroic pursuits, you will realise that as the local battle developed… there were strategic calls taken by local commanders… when they made mistakes, they corrected it…
ON RAHUL GANDHI
No.1…it is easy to make allegations. Let him pinpoint specific instances. He was not aware of it. I was not aware of it. In fact, the Prime Minister requested us to see the telivision … Live … In Cabinet room… Just to ensure that no one out of excitement… because in the Cabinet room out of excitement, anyone can call their friend and tell them while…
WERE PHONES CONFISCATED?
No, not correct. I myself during surgical strikes realised that phones can be hacked. So I myself had brought it to the notice of the principal secretary that what is discussed in the Cabinet is confidential… A mobile appliance could be a source of leakage without the person knowing if it is hacked. So better to keep it outside. So from that instance… when we used to discuss about surgical strikes, we used to keep our mobiles out or away.
ON POLL CAMPAIGNS, RALLIES, OPPOSITION
I’ll put in one way. For not taking people into confidence is one reason. His political decision is his decision. And possibly, as I told you that he is looking for a space and if he thinks that there is some space on the opposite side of demonetisation, he is trying to take that space. Some political parties are also taking that space or if some of them are hurt whichever way it is…. I’m not going into details or making allegations also… But I will make it very clear that one… it is the democratic right of everyone to put his viewpoint across… there’s no doubt about it. The way Parliament was blocked by the Congress and opposition… I am witness to it and so is the country witness to it… And then on the top of it, they make allegations that they were not allowed to talk… This is something that’s really funny and not gone down to well with the people…
There may have been a demand… But the PM came and sat there… But you can’t expect him to sit throughout the debate… He does have an arrangement where his political points made are noted and ultimately the final response has to be given by the Finance Minister. The PM may be very clear that he will intervene… i.e, he will also reply… But the final technical reply rests with the Finance Minister… There’s nothing wrong about it…
ON IMPACT ON U.P. AND GOA ELECTIONS
In Goa, it has no impact. Whatever impact is there is a positive impact… In fact, we are moving very quickly to increase the digital applications in Goa and lots of exercises are being carried out. As far as UP is concerned… yes, people have suffered… But people also know that this suffering is a short term suffering for the better, good for the common man and poor man in the longer term. I don’t think that demonetisation will have any negative impact. Whatever impact is there it will have a positive impact. It will enhance the chances of the BJP to get a better vote share and seats because people see it first time as a battle against corruption, black money and those who amassed wealth by illegal means. That’s the view of the common man. And he is ready to endure some difficulties. As it is, he has to survive through those difficulties throughout his life.
WILL BJP FORM GOVERNMENT IN U.P.?
I think, yes, we have very good chances. With regards to a primary challenge for us, I won’t say any, because all of them are creating a challenge for themselves within their parties. There are huge deposits by one party in the banks; so a lot of explanation to be done to the public and Income Tax. That’s a separate issue. I won’t take any name… but I think there’s a big issue which was debated on television. When I saw it… They have not denied it… They have only tried to justify it. They have to justify it to the Income Tax authorities for any taxation issues. But people of the country know the reality. The number of messages which I received which said that this is only a small percentage. I don’t put a certificate to the comment. But that was a comment by a common man…the other party is struggling within… In fact, I feel there is no real big challenger… Of course because of their vote share… Base structure… Both of them are close as second…number two.. I think the BJP is number one. When you form the government…When you can’t be a fool to say the BJP is number 2 when you expect more than 50% seats.